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It's a Mad Chat
Going from complete strangers to friends, the Mad World process was about vulnerability, courage, laughter, and connection. Together, we responded to some common reactions to sharing what it’s like to live with, or to care for someone with, a mental health challenge.
This is where it all started...
[Experience the work by selecting the shape below]
Sylv: And Rose jump in at any point, cause you mentioned, what did you mention that I was like that was amazing...it was about language.
Rose: I was talking about language...I just pressed record, was that right?
Sylv: Oh, yeah, great. Thank you.
Rose: Yes, I was Yeah, keep going anyway, yeah, that was..
Sylv: Oh and Rose mentioned she had been talking to someone and had said there is this project we're working called. It's a Mad World and someone said, you can't say mad, like that's…you know, and I said, that's the whole point! This is this is the whole point that we're trying to talk about is like, this kind of that moment when someone says you can't say mad, you know, and I guess I just actually… that comment alone is something that I just wanted to ask people… like your thoughts on that and, and, I guess whether...how you feel when you hear that and, and what part of that, you know, what do you think is important for maybe the world to hear or society to learn when it comes to kind of braver conversations around mental health and experiences. And in the context of what we've been talking about. That was a lot of questions. But any thoughts...?
Rose: I’ll just clarify, just to build on that briefly, I was really curious about it because I think we got talking about the constraints of language...and how in the mental health field and space...There's so much discussion about language...and we all, we all struggle...and I put myself in the same thing...and we all say what's the right words? And I think it can be very constraining when you’ve experienced something that's very unique and really, all the colours and all the states and everything and you're constrained by not being able to say how it really is, which is, you know, mad and crazy and it's not I think I said, this person said that's very non-PC, you can’t say that. You know...And kids in schools, they’re taught you can’t say words like mad and crazy and schizo and they get pulled up. So ,it's that...you know, that balance I think.
A participant: I personally love the...It's a Mad World. To me it has a lot of connotations around Alice in Wonderland and all that sort of stuff. It's a very crazy, weird time. That I think I just think that it perfectly fits like Alice in wonderland like as a movie, like just the themes throughout that I just feel fit so well within mental health and things like that. I just think it’s a cool and clever name. And just like Rose said, it is kind of mad. Like things...it's not normal. I don’t think saying mad has to be a negative connotation. And I think people acting as if it does, I think that’s what is limiting rather than the actual word itself.
A participant: I feel like maybe it's one of those things where you are kind of taking ownership of a derogatory term. So I would quite easily describe my mum as mad or nuts or crazy or something like that. But if someone else did, who I didn't really know, I wouldn't be okay with that. So it’s sort of like I feel like I have ownership over saying things like that. But yeah, maybe like, I don't want it to be it to be like “Hey, everyone, like you're allowed to say that about people with mental health issues.” But more like, this is our language and this is our experience and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, just taking ownership of some of the language there.
Rose: It’s like claiming it isn’t it. You know, I was saying to Sylv, I’ve got a book not here but in my office, called Madness and Loss of Motherhood. The whole book is about Having...being a mother...
A Participant: Oh god, straight straight to the guts
Rose: You know, women got locked up from being mad
A participant: Yeah, I think, I think I agree with what's been said already, and I think I find it really frustrating. If people hear like what I say and I might just you know, similarly go, oh you know, mum is having one of her bat shit moments. Um, and they were like “oh, is she having some mental health issues right now?” Is like no, she’s gone bat shit. My life is complicated as it is. I don’t need to learn how to translate into code that is acceptable for you, like, you can deal with what I'm saying. You don’t need to deal with what I'm doing. You can just handle it.
A participant: I think also, like, for me, it's like you know, the alternative world of like, the correct medical diagnosis or whatever or the mental health issues. It's like, a lot of the time you get 1000s of different diagnoses and none of it really makes any sense to you anyway, or mental health issues is just so minimising and vague and weird. So yes, I feel like madness kind of does actually capture it. And it's like, there's also a history there of like, people who've been treated a certain way for behaving a certain way. Like I don't know, we all kind of know what madness means, I guess as a culture. So, I don't know, I kind of I feel like there's problems with like if people are going to use it as a derogatory term, but like it kind of speaks to me as an inclusive term, being in the world, in a way that like medical terms don't.
A participant: I kind of find that the word madness to me, it's about redefining what it means for people like from someone who owns it, but not in the same way. As soon as I think mad like, you know, professionally or externally, people that don't understand goes straight to that medical definition of mad and so to go, no no, this is my version of it, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I quite enjoy being mad half the time. Or, you know, like explaining that there are funny moments to it, and you know, mania can actually be great. I might enjoy being on a high, and it’s a fun kind of madness. So, it’s kind of reminding them that there are different, like similarly to the diagnosis, there's not one label and definition for everyone. There's actually a gradient and getting people to see what it looks like for different people.
Rose: It’s much about other people's discomfort then, isn’t it? It’s not just about the language, it’s about how people don't know what to do when you say things like, when you own it, or you claim it, or you describe it, and people don’t know how to respond.
A participant: I feel like they're unable, like, I don't think we're used to people owning mental illness. I think we're so trained that it's something you’re supposed to be ashamed of, it’s something you're supposed to hide. Like, I shouldn't be talking about that my family has mental illness, because then it might be assumed that I might be. And God forbid, anyone think that I might. And I think probably people in this circle and kind of broader society is getting better at being like “no, I've got anxiety. It's just part of what I am, what I do. You know, no big deal.” And I think people are confronted with the fact that someone's not embarrassed or ashamed. And so when we say mad, or when we say crazy, like even when I say mad or crazy, like, I don't actually think of it as a bad thing. It means it's something that I have to deal with. But it's not, it's not necessarily bad.
Sylv: And Rose jump in at any point, cause you mentioned, what did you mention that I was like that was amazing...it was about language.
Rose: I was talking about language...I just pressed record, was that right?
Sylv: Oh, yeah, great. Thank you.
Rose: Yes, I was Yeah, keep going anyway, yeah, that was..
Sylv: Oh and Rose mentioned she had been talking to someone and had said there is this project we're working called. It's a Mad World and someone said, you can't say mad, like that's…you know, and I said, that's the whole point! This is this is the whole point that we're trying to talk about is like, this kind of that moment when someone says you can't say mad, you know, and I guess I just actually… that comment alone is something that I just wanted to ask people… like your thoughts on that and, and, I guess whether...how you feel when you hear that and, and what part of that, you know, what do you think is important for maybe the world to hear or society to learn when it comes to kind of braver conversations around mental health and experiences. And in the context of what we've been talking about. That was a lot of questions. But any thoughts...?
Rose: I’ll just clarify, just to build on that briefly, I was really curious about it because I think we got talking about the constraints of language...and how in the mental health field and space...There's so much discussion about language...and we all, we all struggle...and I put myself in the same thing...and we all say what's the right words? And I think it can be very constraining when you’ve experienced something that's very unique and really, all the colours and all the states and everything and you're constrained by not being able to say how it really is, which is, you know, mad and crazy and it's not I think I said, this person said that's very non-PC, you can’t say that. You know...And kids in schools, they’re taught you can’t say words like mad and crazy and schizo and they get pulled up. So ,it's that...you know, that balance I think.
A participant: I personally love the...It's a Mad World. To me it has a lot of connotations around Alice in Wonderland and all that sort of stuff. It's a very crazy, weird time. That I think I just think that it perfectly fits like Alice in wonderland like as a movie, like just the themes throughout that I just feel fit so well within mental health and things like that. I just think it’s a cool and clever name. And just like Rose said, it is kind of mad. Like things...it's not normal. I don’t think saying mad has to be a negative connotation. And I think people acting as if it does, I think that’s what is limiting rather than the actual word itself.
A participant: I feel like maybe it's one of those things where you are kind of taking ownership of a derogatory term. So I would quite easily describe my mum as mad or nuts or crazy or something like that. But if someone else did, who I didn't really know, I wouldn't be okay with that. So it’s sort of like I feel like I have ownership over saying things like that. But yeah, maybe like, I don't want it to be it to be like “Hey, everyone, like you're allowed to say that about people with mental health issues.” But more like, this is our language and this is our experience and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, just taking ownership of some of the language there.
Rose: It’s like claiming it isn’t it. You know, I was saying to Sylv, I’ve got a book not here but in my office, called Madness and Loss of Motherhood. The whole book is about Having...being a mother...
A Participant: Oh god, straight straight to the guts
Rose: You know, women got locked up from being mad
A participant: Yeah, I think, I think I agree with what's been said already, and I think I find it really frustrating. If people hear like what I say and I might just you know, similarly go, oh you know, mum is having one of her bat shit moments. Um, and they were like “oh, is she having some mental health issues right now?” Is like no, she’s gone bat shit. My life is complicated as it is. I don’t need to learn how to translate into code that is acceptable for you, like, you can deal with what I'm saying. You don’t need to deal with what I'm doing. You can just handle it.
A participant: I think also, like, for me, it's like you know, the alternative world of like, the correct medical diagnosis or whatever or the mental health issues. It's like, a lot of the time you get 1000s of different diagnoses and none of it really makes any sense to you anyway, or mental health issues is just so minimising and vague and weird. So yes, I feel like madness kind of does actually capture it. And it's like, there's also a history there of like, people who've been treated a certain way for behaving a certain way. Like I don't know, we all kind of know what madness means, I guess as a culture. So, I don't know, I kind of I feel like there's problems with like if people are going to use it as a derogatory term, but like it kind of speaks to me as an inclusive term, being in the world, in a way that like medical terms don't.
A participant: I kind of find that the word madness to me, it's about redefining what it means for people like from someone who owns it, but not in the same way. As soon as I think mad like, you know, professionally or externally, people that don't understand goes straight to that medical definition of mad and so to go, no no, this is my version of it, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I quite enjoy being mad half the time. Or, you know, like explaining that there are funny moments to it, and you know, mania can actually be great. I might enjoy being on a high, and it’s a fun kind of madness. So, it’s kind of reminding them that there are different, like similarly to the diagnosis, there's not one label and definition for everyone. There's actually a gradient and getting people to see what it looks like for different people.
Rose: It’s much about other people's discomfort then, isn’t it? It’s not just about the language, it’s about how people don't know what to do when you say things like, when you own it, or you claim it, or you describe it, and people don’t know how to respond.
A participant: I feel like they're unable, like, I don't think we're used to people owning mental illness. I think we're so trained that it's something you’re supposed to be ashamed of, it’s something you're supposed to hide. Like, I shouldn't be talking about that my family has mental illness, because then it might be assumed that I might be. And God forbid, anyone think that I might. And I think probably people in this circle and kind of broader society is getting better at being like “no, I've got anxiety. It's just part of what I am, what I do. You know, no big deal.” And I think people are confronted with the fact that someone's not embarrassed or ashamed. And so when we say mad, or when we say crazy, like even when I say mad or crazy, like, I don't actually think of it as a bad thing. It means it's something that I have to deal with. But it's not, it's not necessarily bad.
Sylv: And Rose jump in at any point, cause you mentioned, what did you mention that I was like that was amazing...it was about language.
Rose: I was talking about language...I just pressed record, was that right?
Sylv: Oh, yeah, great. Thank you.
Rose: Yes, I was Yeah, keep going anyway, yeah, that was..
Sylv: Oh and Rose mentioned she had been talking to someone and had said there is this project we're working called. It's a Mad World and someone said, you can't say mad, like that's…you know, and I said, that's the whole point! This is this is the whole point that we're trying to talk about is like, this kind of that moment when someone says you can't say mad, you know, and I guess I just actually… that comment alone is something that I just wanted to ask people… like your thoughts on that and, and, I guess whether...how you feel when you hear that and, and what part of that, you know, what do you think is important for maybe the world to hear or society to learn when it comes to kind of braver conversations around mental health and experiences. And in the context of what we've been talking about. That was a lot of questions. But any thoughts...?
Rose: I’ll just clarify, just to build on that briefly, I was really curious about it because I think we got talking about the constraints of language...and how in the mental health field and space...There's so much discussion about language...and we all, we all struggle...and I put myself in the same thing...and we all say what's the right words? And I think it can be very constraining when you’ve experienced something that's very unique and really, all the colours and all the states and everything and you're constrained by not being able to say how it really is, which is, you know, mad and crazy and it's not I think I said, this person said that's very non-PC, you can’t say that. You know...And kids in schools, they’re taught you can’t say words like mad and crazy and schizo and they get pulled up. So ,it's that...you know, that balance I think.
A participant: I personally love the...It's a Mad World. To me it has a lot of connotations around Alice in Wonderland and all that sort of stuff. It's a very crazy, weird time. That I think I just think that it perfectly fits like Alice in wonderland like as a movie, like just the themes throughout that I just feel fit so well within mental health and things like that. I just think it’s a cool and clever name. And just like Rose said, it is kind of mad. Like things...it's not normal. I don’t think saying mad has to be a negative connotation. And I think people acting as if it does, I think that’s what is limiting rather than the actual word itself.
A participant: I feel like maybe it's one of those things where you are kind of taking ownership of a derogatory term. So I would quite easily describe my mum as mad or nuts or crazy or something like that. But if someone else did, who I didn't really know, I wouldn't be okay with that. So it’s sort of like I feel like I have ownership over saying things like that. But yeah, maybe like, I don't want it to be it to be like “Hey, everyone, like you're allowed to say that about people with mental health issues.” But more like, this is our language and this is our experience and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, just taking ownership of some of the language there.
Rose: It’s like claiming it isn’t it. You know, I was saying to Sylv, I’ve got a book not here but in my office, called Madness and Loss of Motherhood. The whole book is about Having...being a mother...
A Participant: Oh god, straight straight to the guts
Rose: You know, women got locked up from being mad
A participant: Yeah, I think, I think I agree with what's been said already, and I think I find it really frustrating. If people hear like what I say and I might just you know, similarly go, oh you know, mum is having one of her bat shit moments. Um, and they were like “oh, is she having some mental health issues right now?” Is like no, she’s gone bat shit. My life is complicated as it is. I don’t need to learn how to translate into code that is acceptable for you, like, you can deal with what I'm saying. You don’t need to deal with what I'm doing. You can just handle it.
A participant: I think also, like, for me, it's like you know, the alternative world of like, the correct medical diagnosis or whatever or the mental health issues. It's like, a lot of the time you get 1000s of different diagnoses and none of it really makes any sense to you anyway, or mental health issues is just so minimising and vague and weird. So yes, I feel like madness kind of does actually capture it. And it's like, there's also a history there of like, people who've been treated a certain way for behaving a certain way. Like I don't know, we all kind of know what madness means, I guess as a culture. So, I don't know, I kind of I feel like there's problems with like if people are going to use it as a derogatory term, but like it kind of speaks to me as an inclusive term, being in the world, in a way that like medical terms don't.
A participant: I kind of find that the word madness to me, it's about redefining what it means for people like from someone who owns it, but not in the same way. As soon as I think mad like, you know, professionally or externally, people that don't understand goes straight to that medical definition of mad and so to go, no no, this is my version of it, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I quite enjoy being mad half the time. Or, you know, like explaining that there are funny moments to it, and you know, mania can actually be great. I might enjoy being on a high, and it’s a fun kind of madness. So, it’s kind of reminding them that there are different, like similarly to the diagnosis, there's not one label and definition for everyone. There's actually a gradient and getting people to see what it looks like for different people.
Rose: It’s much about other people's discomfort then, isn’t it? It’s not just about the language, it’s about how people don't know what to do when you say things like, when you own it, or you claim it, or you describe it, and people don’t know how to respond.
A participant: I feel like they're unable, like, I don't think we're used to people owning mental illness. I think we're so trained that it's something you’re supposed to be ashamed of, it’s something you're supposed to hide. Like, I shouldn't be talking about that my family has mental illness, because then it might be assumed that I might be. And God forbid, anyone think that I might. And I think probably people in this circle and kind of broader society is getting better at being like “no, I've got anxiety. It's just part of what I am, what I do. You know, no big deal.” And I think people are confronted with the fact that someone's not embarrassed or ashamed. And so when we say mad, or when we say crazy, like even when I say mad or crazy, like, I don't actually think of it as a bad thing. It means it's something that I have to deal with. But it's not, it's not necessarily bad.